Kevin Francis: Looking back at GM Pierre Dorion's trades part 1

Dorion doesn't seem so bad when you look at these trades.

Dorion doesn't seem so bad when you look at these trades.
- hockeyaddict89

Many GM's out there all miss/whiff on trades and free agent signings as they say. Some more than others.

I would suggest a more appropriate way to view the value of Dorion's trades. In simple terms, the real question is whether a trade improves the Sens. Consideration of how these deals impacted the trade partner offers little value, especially when prospects are involved. Successful GMs do not consider how deals will impact the other team. This is especially true when prospects (other than top 5) are involved.

The Sens have the best prospect pool in the NHL and will be a force in a couple of years.

At the time of the Stone trade, Brannstrom had just been a 3rd overall pick and was being called "heir apparent" to Karlsson. Many people (most of them actually) even liked the Stone trade better than the Karlsson trade since it appeared Dorion had gotten a real high-end prospect with Norris trophy potential vs lots of spare parts (Karlsson trade).

Hindsight is always 20/20. Brannstrom hasn't panned out (yet) as expected. But at the time of the trade, it was almost unanimously lauded.

Boston lost big when they traded Joe Thornton to San Jose. Everyone said so. Ottawa fans were enraged by how little Dorion got back when he traded Karlsson away.

Very common for shrewd investment traders to sell winners at a loss in order to buy or balance out their investments for a better long term result. Short term they might lose. But, looking at the long term, they set up new conditions of possibility for success.

Boston would never have won a Stanley Cup had they retained Thornton as their #1 centre. Ottawa fans today could be bemoaning the huge contract they gave Karlsson.

Most Stanley Cup winners drafted and developed blue chip prospects from within their own system.

When you start looking at individual trades rather than the whole body of work you end up with a distorted image of what happened.

Tkachuk, Stuetzle, Sanderson, Norris, Pinto, Formenton, Griegg, Sokolov, Thomson, Brannstrom as well as a bunch more are the direct result of rebuild.

Does anybody really want any of the old pieces back?

I like the composition of this young team.

At the time of the Stone trade, Brannstrom had just been a 3rd overall pick and was being called "heir apparent" to Karlsson. Many people (most of them actually) even liked the Stone trade better than the Karlsson trade since it appeared Dorion had gotten a real high-end prospect with Norris trophy potential vs lots of spare parts (Karlsson trade).

Hindsight is always 20/20. Brannstrom hasn't panned out (yet) as expected. But at the time of the trade, it was almost unanimously lauded.
- redseerpf

Brannstrom is not a DJ Smith player. He will have a good NHL career. Just not in Ottawa.

I rather look at the big picture as well.

A very nice stable of youth & talent. Stone trade was an oops. Draft capital next year. Overall the Sens are in a good position. Tons of potential that only has to keep growing.

I would suggest a more appropriate way to view the value of Dorion's trades. In simple terms, the real question is whether a trade improves the Sens. Consideration of how these deals impacted the trade partner offers little value, especially when prospects are involved. Successful GMs do not consider how deals will impact the other team. This is especially true when prospects (other than top 5) are involved.
- Jackie Daytona

Okay

He seems to have a decent job minus the ill-fated three team trade. Should have got Girard out of that deal at least.

Imo. The trades are below .500 with some luck sprinkled in. but it doesnt matter The only question is is Dorion capable of taking the team to the next level..This trade or non trade is on Melnyk.

Just in my opinion, Brannstrom has never been given a good opportunity with Ottawa to excel yet. I find it unfair to call the Stone trade a bad one (even though I do believe more should have come Ottawa's way) because Stone had no intentions of signing in Ottawa and was a free agent that year. On top of that, the article says that other, better offers had been placed on the table but what were they? And maybe they would have been busts.
After watching every single Sens game this past season, I found that when given the opportunity, Brannstrom was the best defenseman on the ice; even more so than Chabot to be honest. I think the coaching staff needs to get their heads out of their asses and start trusting these young guys, like they did at the end of last season (10-3-1 to finish out the season), and Dorion has to stop bringing in washed up veterans. Let the boys play and grow and let Brannstrom show us what he can do because he is a very good hockey player.
Also, I hate the +/- stat, but for anyone who does like it, Brannstrom was a +3 on the season for a (generally) losing team.

At the time of the Stone trade, Brannstrom had just been a 3rd overall pick and was being called "heir apparent" to Karlsson. Many people (most of them actually) even liked the Stone trade better than the Karlsson trade since it appeared Dorion had gotten a real high-end prospect with Norris trophy potential vs lots of spare parts (Karlsson trade).

Hindsight is always 20/20. Brannstrom hasn't panned out (yet) as expected. But at the time of the trade, it was almost unanimously lauded.
- redseerpf

Brannstrom was drafted 15th overall, not 3rd.

Boston lost big when they traded Joe Thornton to San Jose. Everyone said so. Ottawa fans were enraged by how little Dorion got back when he traded Karlsson away.

Very common for shrewd investment traders to sell winners at a loss in order to buy or balance out their investments for a better long term result. Short term they might lose. But, looking at the long term, they set up new conditions of possibility for success.

Boston would never have won a Stanley Cup had they retained Thornton as their #1 centre. Ottawa fans today could be bemoaning the huge contract they gave Karlsson.

Most Stanley Cup winners drafted and developed blue chip prospects from within their own system.

When you start looking at individual trades rather than the whole body of work you end up with a distorted image of what happened.

Tkachuk, Stuetzle, Sanderson, Norris, Pinto, Formenton, Griegg, Sokolov, Thomson, Brannstrom as well as a bunch more are the direct result of rebuild.

Does anybody really want any of the old pieces back?

I like the composition of this young team.
- spatso

"Joe Thornton may go down as the best player to never win ANYTHING."

- John Tortorella

Zibanejad was the worse trade in my opinion
Pageau was a one of the top trades a 1st 2nd and conditioning 3rd for a 3rd line Center 😯

Just think we could of had 😯

Tkachuk Zibby Batherson
Stutzle Norris Sokolov
Paul Tierny Brown
Formenton White Watson

Since that won’t happen now we trade these for Eichel

White
Brannstrom
L.Brown
2022 1st 2023 2nd
Conditioning 2022 3rd if make playoffs
Conditioning 2023 1st if we win cup

Tkachuk Eichel Batherson
Stutzle Norris Sokolov
Paul Teirny Brown
Formenton Greig Watson

Chabot Del Zotto
Mete Zub
Holden Brown

As we all know, PD’s background and strength is drafting, and I’d say that his best trades were the ones that resulted in draft selections. His assessment of existing players always seems odd to me, seems he undervalues players on the team and over values other teams players - especially vets with a reputation of being good (even if it’s in the past). Perhaps this is why PM was brought in to help with. Time to build a winner and PD will need A few experienced NHLers to surround the young core. Bad trades moving forward will hurt at this point.

I would suggest a more appropriate way to view the value of Dorion's trades. In simple terms, the real question is whether a trade improves the Sens. Consideration of how these deals impacted the trade partner offers little value, especially when prospects are involved. Successful GMs do not consider how deals will impact the other team. This is especially true when prospects (other than top 5) are involved.
- Jackie Daytona

Thanks for stopping by. I took a different look at it. I thought it would be neat to look back and took a different approach. We all have our ways of looking at things. I guess if I was to take a deep dive into it, I would look at it as you mentioned. But I appreciate the comments and I am always looking to do improve things and find topics good for discussion in the off-season. Hope you stop by again.

The Sens have the best prospect pool in the NHL and will be a force in a couple of years.
- islansjet

They are certainly near top of the league with their prospects. Patience and proper development will determine how much of a force they can be in the coming years.

At the time of the Stone trade, Brannstrom had just been a 3rd overall pick and was being called "heir apparent" to Karlsson. Many people (most of them actually) even liked the Stone trade better than the Karlsson trade since it appeared Dorion had gotten a real high-end prospect with Norris trophy potential vs lots of spare parts (Karlsson trade).

Hindsight is always 20/20. Brannstrom hasn't panned out (yet) as expected. But at the time of the trade, it was almost unanimously lauded.
- redseerpf

I guess looking back, alot of the people I talked to thought Ottawa didnt score big enough. The pure fact they didnt get a 1st round draft pick was a huge miss, personally.

Boston lost big when they traded Joe Thornton to San Jose. Everyone said so. Ottawa fans were enraged by how little Dorion got back when he traded Karlsson away.

Very common for shrewd investment traders to sell winners at a loss in order to buy or balance out their investments for a better long term result. Short term they might lose. But, looking at the long term, they set up new conditions of possibility for success.

Boston would never have won a Stanley Cup had they retained Thornton as their #1 centre. Ottawa fans today could be bemoaning the huge contract they gave Karlsson.

Most Stanley Cup winners drafted and developed blue chip prospects from within their own system.

When you start looking at individual trades rather than the whole body of work you end up with a distorted image of what happened.

Tkachuk, Stuetzle, Sanderson, Norris, Pinto, Formenton, Griegg, Sokolov, Thomson, Brannstrom as well as a bunch more are the direct result of rebuild.

Does anybody really want any of the old pieces back?

I like the composition of this young team.
- spatso

I recall the day Karlsson was traded very well, mid afternoon.....picking up my kids school, we listened to the radio, fans were furious with the return!!!! TSN 1200 stayed on air til midnight or maybe later that night, the callers didnt stop!

Exactly, not many would want the pieces back the Sens have traded over the years. I would take Mark Stone though in a second. He single handedly got Colin White his 6 year contract!

Brannstrom is not a DJ Smith player. He will have a good NHL career. Just not in Ottawa.
- spatso

He never will be, which is why you hear his name in trade rumours. If this right offer comes along, goodbye!

I rather look at the big picture as well.

A very nice stable of youth & talent. Stone trade was an oops. Draft capital next year. Overall the Sens are in a good position. Tons of potential that only has to keep growing.
- Nighthawk

11 picks in next years draft, which will allow management to start using those picks to get immediate help that can put them over the top hopefully, at some point!

He seems to have a decent job minus the ill-fated three team trade. Should have got Girard out of that deal at least.
- BluemanGuruu

No doubt he messed up the Turris trade, but Turris did decline fast. At least Dorion didnt get stuck giving him a 6 year extension, which is what he wanted and got in Nashville.

Imo. The trades are below .500 with some luck sprinkled in. but it doesnt matter The only question is is Dorion capable of taking the team to the next level..This trade or non trade is on Melnyk.
- spazzbot

He has drafted well, his trades like you said in the .500 area, now they need to have patience with young players and continue develop the talent like they have the last few years.